Category: Let's talk
Here's something to think about:
What would you do if someone came up and put a gun to your head and said, "Are you American? If you say yes, I'll kill you." Would you say yes? Would you die for your country?
I would for sure say yes. I am so proud to be an American, and proud to serve my country as a civilian reserve bugler and veterans' medical center volunteer. In the words of my bugle corps motto and Westpoint: Duty, Honor, Country!
How in the *world* would you be serving your country by admitting to the fact that you're American in this ludicrous situation? What could America possibly gain by your saying "yes"? I mean, while I personally find it rather questionable to put one's own life on the line for some oil baron's interests, at least I can see how that act might in a sense benefit America as a country. But how does admitting your citizenship constitute dying for your country? It doesn't help it, or its causes, in any way...
I'm not sure that I really think this is at all likely to happen. And if it did, I'm likely to answer yes, not necessarily because I'm hugely proud of my country, because today I'm not really, (I support what this country is supposed to be, not what it is today), but because they're likely to kill me anyway, and I might as well go out telling the truth.
Agreed completely with Susanne. All you'd gain would be a sense of unreasonable patriotic pride before you were shot in the head, and America would gain nothing, so you'd not be doing this fantastic country any favors. And I also agree with Nehemiah in that I would probably say yes, not because I'm proud to be an American, but simply because I am an American. It's fact.
agree with Nehemiah's post. i would say yes, only because I am an American.
I would say no because I like my life and at the end of the day they wouldn't give a fuck about someone dying or else we wouldn't have our troups in Iraq where we really shouldn't be but thats just my opinion
So, let's change the scenario a bit:
Someone is pointing a gun to your sibling's or your mom's head and tells you if you say you are American he will shoot said person, if not he will walk away (hey, it's not that much less likely than the first scenario) .. would you still proudly stand by your country or would this be different?
To me loyalties lie with the people who brought me up, my circle of friends and my family, those are the ones I need to stand up for and, if necessary, sacrifice my life for. The idea of a country or some abstract concept like that is all nice and romantic perhaps but I think it's over emphasized, I'm proud to be an Icelander, I'm also thankful and proud to have been accepted into American universities and jobs and I hope I've performed satisfactoraly and paid back with my work contribution, but when it comes to proudly dying for your country, that's the stuff that is generally used to turn of your brain and make you blindly obey people with questionable intent, all the great dictators developed a personality cult, the nazis would sacrifice themselves for their leader (who incidentally hid in a bunker and never endangerred himself), Chinese leaders preached dying for the course of communism and brotherhood, most likely whilst bathing in chocolate on their private jet .. The leader of North Koria flew in special team of chefs from Italy to make him the perfect pizza whilst millions of people starve to death in his country but they adore him and would die for him.
You only have one life but courses to die for can be picked up at every street corner, so pick wisely.
Ah, call me a yellow bellied mongrel but if I thought there was the smallest chance I could get outta there alive, and I was, in fact, a US citizen, i'd categorically say no! No, no, no! As said before, what is gained by your death? Dead, you can do nothing, but alive, you may be able to make a difference.
I was born in America, and am still here, but don't consider myself an American. So I'd say no without a guilty conscience. However, if I were in the first situation and someone asked me if I were Greek, I'd say yes without hesitation. I'd gladly die for Hellas if I had to. I wish to serve my country in some capacity in real life, though hopefully, in a much more meaningful way than that.
Now as to that second sinario... Wow! Oh my gods that's hard. Ridiculously hard. I'm sitting here speechless... My mother is my everything and words cannot describe how I love her. I don't think I could honestly live with either decision, whichever one I chose. If I chose my country, I'd forever feel guilty for letting my mother die. If I chose my mother, I'd forever feel guilty for betraying my country. However, I'd probably keep chanting "homosydal maniac, homosydal maniac!" in my head and say no, because what good would my mother's death do for Ellada? Besides, she's not a Greek patriot, she's an American one. I think PASOK and New Democracy would agree, for once. lol
First of all, I wouldn’t say anything…being a proud American, I would go down swinging and hope to take the guy with me. If my family was in danger, I would do whatever I had to do to protect them…then take the guy out.
I have a son serving proudly in the United States Army. He has been in for a little over a year. I’ve read comments about how we are not supposed to be involved in this war, it’s about oil, etc. My question is this, do those who feel this way have specific examples of why? As far as I can tell, if it were about oil, we would not have gas prices at around $3.00 a barrel. If we aren’t supposed to be there because Iraq/Afghanistan had nothing to do with our being attacked on 9/11, then why haven’t we been attacked again? Many people say we shouldn’t aggravate these people so they will leave us alone. If you look at history, these attacks started back in the 70s, through democratic and republican administrations, and they kept on. The barracks being blown up in Lebanon in the early 80s, the first Twin Tower explosion in the early 90s, the USS Cole blown up in the late 90s…do we have a right to defend ourselves against terrorists, and the countries providing support to them?
I am not trying to provoke an argument, it’s just that I often hear a lot of people say things from an emotional standpoint, but have no real factual basis for their views. It’s pretty obvious how I feel about things, but I would like to hear the other side of the issue with some specific reasons.
Well, I certainly appreciate the attitude of fighting back, giving the ficticious gunpointer a ding around the ear hole, grabbing his gun and ridding the world of a rather unpleasaent person.
I don't really want this, like so many other boards before it, board to turn into an Iraqi debate.
But, just a few notes:
a. Both London and Madrid sufferred a massive scale terrorist attack as a result of the Iraqi invation, sure it's just Europe and Americans couldn't care less as those lives are clearly worth less than those of the U.S. people, but it proofs the bad guys are out to get us westerners. And no attacks inside the U.S. are more likely the results of better security measures than invading the terrorists' countries. Saddam never had anything to do with Al Qaeda, it's been documented time and again, and what bothers me is that the U.S. think they're above the UN and everyone else when it comes to politics. Pre emptive strikes are not self defense.
At the same time I can't say I have any sympathy for the middle East and the muslim extremists and I certainly don't offer solutions to deal with them, but it appears to me the military one hasn't been overly effective.
And if the president of the U.S. did it for oil the primary goal would surely to keep oil prices expensive and the U.S. especially Texas, has profitted enormously from keep oil prices high, the power given to Russia, Iran and Venezuela was probably an unconsidered consequence.
The U.S. stands for a lot of good things and hopefully, somehow, invading Iraq will make the world a better place in the long run, but I don't beleive in it personally. Yet, if your child is out there risking his life you better try to believe in what he is fighting for I suppose.
cheers
-B
In the first scenareo I'd say "no, but the guy with the horn told me...."
In W-b's scenareo, it'd depend on who it was. If it were my ex- I might offer them a beer afterward. <just kidding dear>!
Bob <proudly refusing to take a stand>
lol, I'd take a stand, if it were a hot dog and beer stand.
If someone puts a gun to my husband or my son's head (though I can't swear about my sister, hehe) I'd happily deny that Wednesday comes after Tuesday, and hope that Wednesday eventually forgives me for having saved my baby by denying it!
Ugh, I totally loathe hypotheticals, because usually the premise is jus so unreal. However, I admit I'm a wimp and a coward so whatever the situation, I'd do whatever's necessary to avoid being killed or having somebody else killed. OK, I understand dying for your country is this great noble symbolic thing, but honestly and truthfully, what does the whole country gain with the death of just one ordinary average citizen, save for one less human in the population. I guess as a civilian, the idea of dying for my country or any kind of idea is beyond me because I just don't understand how my death benefits life in general. I guess my life is more important to me than any idea or philosophy or concept.
I think that depends on the situation. In one such as this, no, you couldn't do your nation any good. But if it was one in which you were rallying people to a cause to fight for freedom etc, or saving people, or say, bringing food or supplies to soldiers or sheltering them in a time of war, that would be a different story. Also, reporters and people who make things for wars in factories may have the potential to get killed and are still doing good for their country. These are all things you could do as a civilian in which you might lose your life.
Wildebrew, Thank you for responding to my questions. I am still relatively new to The Zone, so I did not realize this topic had taken over some boards. It just seemed a natural progression from the original post, and then from your addendum. The main reason for my original response was to get people to think. I hear many people repeat “sound bites” they have heard on TV or radio, and don’t really have facts to support their statements.
I would leave it at that, but you made a couple of statements to which I feel I need to respond. The first is that contrary to your statements, Americans in general were very upset about the bombings, first in Spain, and then later on in England. We were not the only ones who suffered losses in the World Trade Center strike. Many people of varying nationalities were injured or killed, and all are honored as fallen heroes. I personally believe that all human life is important, regardless of country of origin, but unfortunately, the people who started this mess do not.
Also, your comment about Americans in general, and Texas specifically, gaining from the higher oil prices…that is just not true. If you mean a few individuals have, that may be the case, but generally speaking, all Americans, including those of us here in Texas, are paying for high oil prices in the cost of gas, manufacturing, transportation, etc. The original argument was that the war in Iraq was for oil. If the President wanted to keep oil prices high, taking oil from Iraq, which isn’t being done, would instead lower prices.
Finally, your remark at the end sounds as though you think I have to justify what my son is doing. I’ve held these beliefs long before he joined the army and my beliefs are mine, not necessarily his. I have always tried to present to him both sides of an argument, much like is being done in this post, and have encouraged him to make up his own mind. I actually tried to talk him into starting college, but his decision to serve his country was his, and I am very proud of him.
i would say yes because i am proud to be an american.
Glenja, well said certainly. I guess I should respond to the responses, as it were:
1. I felt there was a critically little media coverage of the UK and Sapin bombings in the U.S. media, cnn specifically, and I had to resort to BBC to really see what was happening there, and I found it a bit strange, may be it was my specific choice of media that affected my notion that not enough was being done to cover this news story. Another example I remember which I found just disturbing was that in a particular CNN news real they spent 2 minuts on the Beslan siege where 400 people, mostly children, were killed but the rest of it (10 minutes= on the possibility of a hurricane hitting Florida. Of course it hits closer to home, as one would say, literally, but it just seemed strange.
As for the oil point. I guess the high oil prices would benefit the president if he or his friends decided to invade Iraq for personal gains, not political ones. That theory is widespread amongst people both within and outside the U.S. and the high oil prices, the contracts awarded to Haliburton, the money lost in the process and the seemingly billions of dollars that have disappeared in the mess do nothing to distract from this view. On a political level surely those guys would lose ut on a private/personal level they'd gain enormously. I'm not necessarily subscribing to said theory, but on the other thand, I have precious little evidence to disregard it.
Also the U.S.'s general attitude, the pre emptive doctrine, the disregard for the UN and for international contracts and obligations (Guantanamo, the invation itself and, just today, the CIA's destruction of interrigation tapes to hide the fact that they are torturing prisoners), does little to make the U.S. safer, it does more to isolate the country from the international community. I come from Europe but lived in the U.S. for almost 10 years and I saw my friends' attitude towards the U.S. change from admiration to loathing during that time and especially post Iraq invation. And I, personally, feel the U.S. soldiers (though in good faith and with considerable bravery) are doing the job of the elite few who do not have the U.S.'s genuine interest at heart and are regarded as an invation force more than anything else.
North Korea has presented us with a different side of the U.S. where politics and international pressure seems to have managed to reverse the rogue states policies without considerable loss of anyone's life. There are times were talks fail and push comes to shove, but such a time should always be delayed as much as possible. The U.S. has learnt that their superior weapons technology doesn't translate to easy victories in the field, I think it was a harsh lesson but I also think it's a good one. I don't want to live in a world with one super power who can come in and take anyone out whenever it pleases, no matter how nobel such power appears to be.
Cheers and best of luck to your son.
Wildebrew, I appreciate your response to the response of the response. Lol. I would just say a couple of things to this. First, I agree, it is your source. CNN is a very biased new organization in my opinion, and I would look to more than just this group for my news.
You gave an example of how the U.S. was focused more on a hurricane in Florida than a siege where people were killed. I remember quite a bit of coverage of the tsunami that occurred in and around India a couple of years ago, but I bet the hurricane, Rita, that hit my house wasn’t covered over there.
Second, the oil price argument doesn’t make logical sense. If the reason given for the war was so the U.S. could get more oil, then why haven’t we gotten it? For oil prices to remain high, the supply needs to be low. Even if the president and friends wanted to make money, increasing oil production by invading Iraq makes no sense.
Third, you said there are times when talks fail and push comes to shove. My question is when should that be done? As far as the invasion of Iraq, there were 41 resolutions in the U.N. over a ten year time period that Iraq just ignored. You can argue that the reason for the war wasn’t justified, and I would disagree, but talk and diplomacy were both tried for over a decade.
I guess at this point you and I are just going to have to agree to disagree. I thank you though for responding with examples to support your point of view.
The thing that I don't like is the general attitude of America that they're superior. I think that the people at the top knnew about September 11th and that they let it happen and that the common people honestly believed that it would never happen to them because, after all, this is America and no one would dare attack the U.S. Another thing that I can't stand is how so many countries are becoming Americanised. I mean, you go to a foreign country to experience it's culture, it's history and you see a MacDonalds on the corner. Even in music, everything sounds like it does in America, only in a different language. People in third world countries ware sweatshirts from American sports teams, and some try their best to look like the people they see in commercials. America's also got this thing with promoting a negative self image. If you're not such and such a weight, if you don't drive an expensive car, wear brand name clothes or hold the popular opinion, right away, you're uncool or there's something wrong with you. And forget about being into your own culture because it's so shameful, at least in the minds of many young people who want to keep up with the Jones's so to speak. And for their part, do American schools below college really teach about other cultures, other ideas? Not in mine they didn't. It was America this America that. No philosophy, no world history, nothing, until I got to college. We barely touched the classics. So how can America promote it's culture when they're not that well-educated in other world systems? I could rant about this type of stuff all day, but will spare you guys, at least for now. lol
I’m not saying that American school systems don’t need to be improved, but I’m not sure I can agree with all of your arguments. The problem I have with bashing American culture is that, if it is so bad, why are so many people choosing to embrace it. We wouldn’t have this illegal alien argument going on if people weren’t trying to come here in droves. I personally can’t stand McDonald’s food, but if it is thriving in other countries, then it must be people in those places who are keeping it in business.
As for 9/11, are you aware of evidence that people in the government had fore knowledge of the attack, or is this more of just an opinion?
This is probably because America is safer or economically better than their countries. However, this does not mean that the U.S. is a be all end all. Greece is having illegal immigration issues too, so much so that it's being discussed in Parliament. It's just that America is better than the places from which these people are coming from for one reason or another. Plus, it's relatively close and there's also the myth surrounding America about it being the land where anything is possible, that the streets are paved with gold (though most people probably don't believe that one). And let's face it. It's not exactly linguisticly difficult for some of these immigrants. From highway signs to cereal boxes, to radio stations to sap on tv. think of how many things are in Spanish, how many places prefer that you're multilingual. It's not as if you really have to learn English or anything, unless of course, your language is something other than Spanish. Plus, though you get alot of honest and hard working people who really do want to learn and settle down, you also get those who make a quick buck and then go back to their country. So with all this stuff, who wouldn't come to America? As for 911, my mother follows all this stuff on the news, even watching documentaries on it. She's more of the person to ask about this stuff, cause she has more facts than I do, and could probably explain it better. But I do know that she cited a few things to me about it, and that these could be readily looked up if anyone chose to do so. I believe there was some kind of memo that was sent to the Whitehouse or such about a possible attack and it was ignored. There was also something about the way the buildings imploded, about the steel construction... But it's very vague now and I don't want to spread misinformation. I believe it was in a documentary on either The History Channel, TLC or The Discovery Channel.
What you said about people coming to America supports my point, that’s why I’m not sure why the country is being trashed. It is a great place to live. I never said it was the only place, but it is a great place. The very fact we are able to talk about things like this is a good example, not everyone is so fortunate to talk about their country so openly…try trashing China in China for example.
Glenja,
agreeing to disagree isn't a bad thing, although it is a bit of a stupid phrase really, don't you think, a silly one at least.
Anyways, I agree, there's nothing like a good greasy KFC, it was invented in America and people all over the world love it, same with cocacola. The Americans invented advertizing and have elivated it to a new art form to spread their culture. It is one that has been embraced, be it because of the glamour (movies, ads etc) or genuine quality (heck, a good KFC is fantastic and nothing beats an ice cold coke really). The immigration problem is not isolated to the U.S. alone, Europe faces huge immigration issues, almost daily scores of people are either found dead of the coast of the Canary Islands or make it ashore. Fact is that 90% of the world's wealth rests in the hands of less than 10% of the population, so far that population happens to live in Europe and the U.S. although the balance and distribution are changing.
And, well, the tzunami killed 220000 people, at the very least, Katarina killed 3000 people in N.O. and other hurricanes less. But still they deserve their media coverage and the world needs to help the U.S. in its need just like the U.S. is quite willing to help others, and always have.
But, as for the Iraq invation, my biggest issue with it was that it was pre emptive and baseed on lies, call it misinformation, but now when the U.S. is shouting for the invation of Iran despite the evidence I just think "oh, another lie" .. I've lost the trust and respect I had for the U.S. after Bush came to power, information is arranged to support whatever policy they choose to pursue. If they were frank about it and said "Saddam is evil, Iraq is better of without him and, incidentally, we want to protect our oil supplies" I would not agree, perhaps, but I would respect their honesty. The high and mighty catch phrases "protect your freedom" and "Al Qaeda" can onloy take you so far until they start sounding empty and hollow.
Bin Laden hasn't been caught yet, and either that means the U.S. army is incredibly incompitent or they don't really want to, so much better tohave an evil figure out there you can use to scare the people.
All that being said, I like the U.S. it's an awesome country, love the food, love the people and I was given the opportunity to study and work there. I don't want to see its reputation go to ruin or the country transformed from leader to follower, but I think the policies of the present government have done more to pose a threat to world peace and its own alienation than any terrorists organization could ever dream of. They may possibly be losing the greater number but they have won the media/propaganda war, so far, and it saddens me.
At lest up til now I have to say the billions of dollars spent on Iraq, the tens of thousands of innocent lives lost and the solderis who died has not done anything to improve world security and now we're left to deal with the messthe U.S. created. But hopefully the positive signs we're seeing there now are not just false hopes and the country will actually stabelize, I am sure U.S. will benefit from its oil supplies once its production returns to normal, but through that the rest of the world also benefits from innovation and the knowledge and hard work of the elite of academics, researchers and venture capitalists that have done more to transform the world than all the wars of the 20th century put together.
We may disagree on the details but I think pretty much everyone here wants the same end result.
Bravo Wildebrew! I like your views. *smile* America certainly has a reputation for sticking it's nose where it doesn't belong, of sometimes trying to change the politics of a country and of lying about it to satisfy it's people. But I guess no country is perfect. So long as Iraq doesn't start effecting me personally and so long as Greece stays out of it, I'm not worrying.
Thank you again for your well thought out response. The phrase “agree to disagree” was my way of saying that you don’t put much stock in my points, and I disagree with the ones you made. I don’t know if you are a student of recent American history, but without getting into more details than this forum allows, it is difficult to go past the point we now stand. For example, the misinformation, or lies, as you call them can go back to the 70s when severe limitations were put on this country’s intelligence services, which lead to the problems we see today. I doubt most people reading this section would be thrilled with an in-depth history lesson. Lol
I try to avoid excessive jingoism, on either side of the debate, and do my best to stick to facts as best they can be determined. I have had the opportunity over the last number of years to pay close attention to what is going on here, long before 9/11 occurred. I believe that for each point that has been made, at least in my own mind, I have an understanding that supports my beliefs. Obviously not everyone will agree with me, I don’t expect them to, but I am just tired of the “blame America” for everything crowd. I appreciate the positive things you said, but there seems always to be a “but” when statement like that are made. “America is great, but…”
I know this country is not perfect, it is run by people, and all people are fallible. However, getting back to the original point of this board, I’m proud to be an American; not ashamed of it like many people today seem to be. I don’t think we are forcing our culture on others by gunboat diplomacy, but others react as though we are. I haven’t been to Europe, though have traveled in Canada and Mexico, and no one had a weapon out forcing people to buy McNuggets. With the global economy and geopolitical structure that exists today I know it isn’t realistically feasible, but there are times when I think we should go back to the days of the Monroe Doctrine.
Mental control is far more powerful than a gun. You don't have to be violent to get your point across or to slowly get people to think as you do. Globalisation can be either peaceful or violent, depending on the situation. Obviously, in the MacDonalds and other foreign export examples, it's peaceful. But America hurts itself too. Look at all the outsourcing! lol This poor topic. I don't know how on Earth we got so far away from it's root.
But my point is that the companies and the culture wouldn’t be expanding without the peoples acceptance of it. If you are saying they are under some mental control or influence, then you must have a low regard for the intelligence and self-awareness of the people in these places.
lol I sure hope not! Greece is among them to some extent. It's just that, well, let's face it. Good advertising, wanting to fit in... and sometimes, it creeps up on you unintentionally. One day it's something small and then, before you know it, your country's capital becomes a little America and culture walks out the door or at least hangs at it's entrance.
Post 21. I had to take World History in both junior and senior high, and a language course was required for me...Took 2 years of it, though I can't remember if only 1 was required or 2. I liked my first teacher because she bothered to teach us some about the culture; not just this is how you say...Post 25, In my opinion, America needs to help America before it goes helping everyone else. Almost every time I turn on the tv some organization is gathering money for the hungry in another country, but what about our own hungry, our abused children (not just abused by their parents, but some by the homes where our own government place them), our under educated, etc. That is what bothers me, "cheredy starts at home"? Not with America. However, if asked "are you ashamed to be an American?" Nope, or I'd be doing my best to move elsewhere. No country is perfect, how can it be when ran by humans. America has her problems, but I still love her.
Most of you people that are trashing America are a bunch of lazy blind people sitting at home on your ass all day getting government checks! Now, you wouldn't be able to do that any other place, now would you. Thank your lucky stars for once!
That post just summarizes what I don't like about American attitude. It is presumtuous, stupid and arrogant.
a. I haven't enjoyed socia security for 10 years, I've worked hard and paid money and taxes both in my home country of Iceland as well as tens of thousands of dolalrs into the American social security system. Sadly my tax oney has also gone into killing Iraqis, for which I am ashamed, and I agree with the fact I'd much rather have paid money towards helping homeless kids or providing better healthcare, the healthcare in the U.S. is simply shameful.
b. Most countries of western Europe, Australia, Canada and countries in Asia (some, Singapore at least) have equal or better social security benefits than the U.S. Europe also has public transportation that actually allows blind people to travel independently, sadly that is hugely lacking in the U.S.
The fact someone from the U.S. think its his or her right to be better-than-though, and so arrogant and stupid examplifies the attitude that I practically loath and is all too common with some of the Americans I've met (though it is fortunately not many).
Love your country by all means but don't assume it's better than the rest of the world, rather, strife to make it so.
And, as has been pointed out earlier, how can you be proud of being American, or white, or left handed. It's not something you earnt, you just happen to be born there, you can be proud of serving in the armed forces, or completing high school or learning to talk, those are achievements, merely being born somewhere is not an achievement. You can claim to be lucky to be an American or white or black or yellow, that's fine, but you can't be proud of it. And, again, do something to make you proud of being who you are, contribute to the country, the cause and the people you love and try to do it so that it benefits everyone.
I hope I won't have to see more of these arrogant and ignorant posts on this board, it makes me ashamed of being very partial to the U.S. and liking it a lot.
To Glenja, well, I've made points contrary to lots of the ones you've made, but ultimately I understand your position. But I can tell you the "but" has only crept into people's mind after the aggressive, pre emptive policies of the republican governments in the last 5 years. Everyone was ready to do anything for the U.S. in 2001 but the world's sympathy wore thin very quick when it came clear how it was going to be used. I hope that American popularity can be rebuilt, you guys have tons of things to be proud of and I am proud of having lived and worked there and, in fact, I hope to be able to move there again. I'll do what I can for the poor, for the sick, for education, research, I'll pay my taxes and volunteer, but I will not support government bent on killing and thinking they have the right to command the rest of the world, just because they spend billions of dollars on killing equipment.
Wildebrew, you must be my long lost brother or something! Again, bravo! AI feel the same way as you do, though I admit to having at least a little ethnocentricity, so I can understand those with a patriotic viewpoint, even if it's for another country. As for America itself, you're absolutely right, especially about B. Where is the transportation for us blind people or those sighted ones who don't drive, and how can they possibly call this socialised when healthcare and higher education is not freely available to all. As for me, I'm working at home for my boyfriend, writing down orders, putting our ad on craigslist and scheduling apointments. But I'm also taking a corespondence course in Nemeth (braille math) at Hadley School for the Blind, so that I can become a transcriber. I'm a college graduate with a 4.0 gpa with a BA in Sociology and minors in History and Anthropology and then went on to receive an internationally recognised certificate in teaching English as a Second Language. My ultimate educational dream is to put myself through culinary school, but in the meantime, I have lots of avenues to choose from. So I won't be sitting here taking money for too much longer. As for contributing to the country, the cause and the people that I love, I ask the gods every night to give me that opportunity. I don't know how, but I will find a way. Right now, I've got tons of clothing and other stuff that I want to donate to the local Greek community, and I'm still continuing my language lessons so that I can speak, read and write fluently one day.
Ok, so I just went to see what the experts said about the best country in the world. The results are from the Human Development Index from the UN.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index
Hats off to Wildebrew! Iceland is at number 1! The U.S. is at 12, but I'm not smiling too much cause Greece is at 24. lol Anyway, for those who may be curious, here's more about the Index.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index
Ah well, at least we're not ranked 175! That would be Guinea-Bissau.
Sigh...maybe I'm being obtuse, but the more you guys who take a different view than I do post, the more you actually seem to support what I've been trying to say all along. The very fact that we have these opportunities in this country to improve ourselves, both native and foreign born, says something about the greatness of this country. Who is it that makes this country great, the people, so we should be proud of what we collectively have accomplished.
I have tried very hard in my posts to use reason and logic, not resorting to emotionalism, but I have to say Wildebrew, you post about DrumCorpsHornlineMember seems rather vitriolic. “The fact someone from the U.S. think its his or her right to be better-than-though, and so arrogant and stupid exemplifies the attitude that I practically
Loath…I’m not sure why her post made you so upset. If you are working and paying taxes, then obviously she wasn’t referring to you. In addition, it was a reference to other Americans, not to people from other countries, so I don’t know how that relates to world opinion about the U.S. ”
Contrary to what many people think, and have come to expect, no one ever promised the people in this, or any other country, a free ride. In college, I had a professor who said that the first law of economics was “tanstaafl.” That is, there ain’t no such thing as a free lunch.
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
The key is that we have the freedom to pursue happiness, not that it would automatically be given, and it comes at a price.
No one wants to work for free. I’m sure you expect a fair paycheck for the work you do. In some of the countries you mentioned, they may very well have better social security benefits that we do, I don’t know, but it then comes at the cost of something else. In Canada for example, and I may get arguments from people who live there, many people cross the border for medical services because they are faster and better here than in their own country. So I’m not sure where you say that the healthcare in this country is shameful.
Now about the war in Iraq…who is it that keeps killing Iraqi citizens. Unfortunately, there is collateral damage in any war, ask the French and German Civilians during both world wars. When I watch the news, it seems that most civilians are killed in terrorist attacks, such as in car bomb explosions. Who is it that are settings off these bombs, terrorists, and where do these terrorists come from, not Iraq. The terrorists come from surrounding countries, such as Syria, and aren’t Iraqis trying to push the Americans and their allies out.
Finally, speaking for myself here, I’m not too concerned about world opinion at this point. You can call it arrogance, I call it being tired. America, from where I stand, is expected by many other countries to lend aid, then is in turn crucified by the world, then again expected to give aid…ad infinitum. You can say what you want, but this is how I and many Americans feel. I personally wouldn’t mind pulling out of the U.N., and if that means we go it alone, then we go it alone. Obviously the U.N. isn’t all that it’s cracked up to be. It makes resolutions that are not followed up. It is rife with corruption; take the “oil for food” scandal as just one example. So, right now, personally, I am tired of the bash American bandwagon. I will probably not respond anymore to this post because I have said what I have needed to say. I know I haven’t answered every argument, there isn’t space for that, but people can agree with me or not, I know where I stand. There is a difference between arrogance and confidence.
p.s. I wrote the remarks about the u.N. before Tiffanitsa’s last post, not in response to it.